Patreon can go F....ar away.

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  • Hi @Gordon,

    In response to Patreon's shameless cash grab, I'm going to close my account with them. Have you a preferred alternative platform for pledging support?

    Tom

  • ...details? ...% what @Gordon really get's vs. what get-rich-scam does without doing much? --- then I have to reconsider as well... may be we have to setup a even a tax-excempt (501(c)(3)) -
    EDUCATIONAL - US org.... ;) - Must be very serious that you go into F...ar away language. Does look really different from JS...

  • https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/07/patreo­ns-new-service-fee-spurs-concern-that-cr­eators-will-lose-patrons/

    It's particularly frustrating - I and I think most other people on Patreon knew there was that charge that came out of what I got after people donated. It's just what happens.

    What they've done is just (quite rightly) going to annoy Patreons to the point of leaving, and actually makes very little difference to the overall figure. It's like the pointless change of logo that required everyone to change all their stuff - I don't know who is in charge of Patreon but they're doing a horrible job.

    And don't get me started on the $0.35 processing charge - presumably if you support multiple people then Patreon take one payment for all of them so there's just a single $0.35 charge - and then they just pocket the rest!

    Honestly, at the moment it's just the PayPal donations - those could be an option? There's an option for recurring payments there - but it's not like there'll be anything like the specific news feed that Patreon had.

  • To be honest I care less about the actual money as the underhanded and stupid way Patreon have done it. Rather than sending each individual customer an email (or link) saying "You currently pay this much and your creators get this much; now you will pay this much and your creators will get this much", they've tried to spin it as a tiny change that's good for everyone involved.

    It's not clear yet but it's possible this is not just a shameless cash grab and is either something Patreon are forced to do or that there's a hidden subtlety that does actually make this better than it sounds. Even so, I don't reward companies that shoot themselves in the foot with opaque misleading communications.

    I honestly don't understand why Patreon needs so many millions in VC funding, for example. Could such a system not be funded purely by equitable transparent fees -- or even with a crowdfunded operation themselves -- in a Community Interest Company / Social Benefit Corporation that limits shareholder return? Why does everything need to be in pursuit of maximum profit, rather than covering costs and making a modest profit?

    Bah.

    It looks like this is an ongoing developing story, so I'll wait until the dust settles before I pull the plug on Patreon. I have a feeling a competitor will rise as their logical alternative, the beneficiary of Patreon's hubris.

  • I honestly don't understand why Patreon needs so many millions in VC funding

    Don't get me started... My feeling is Patreon may have done well because they could afford to pay a marketing team to get the word out. I'm sure there were (and are) better platforms out there that just haven't got the exposure. Someone mentioned https://liberapay.com/ on https://www.patreon.com/foosel

    Unless I'm missing something it seems relatively easy to knock up the actual tech side of things - it's just building the business... But seeing how self-destructive Patreon are being now it's hard to imagine they got where they are through well thought out business decisions :)

    It looks like this is an ongoing developing story, so I'll wait until the dust settles before I pull the plug on Patreon.

    Thanks! There are at least two Patreons who haven't waited though, and I'm sure there will be more - hopefully Patreon will do something to make this up to everyone, but I'm not optimistic.

  • I was a bit less patient and had pulled up the page... just stopped on the eagle dive hitting the 'Cancel Pledge' button... or fish. My thought is: is the 'added on' service - Mehrwert - that Patreon provides for you @Gordon worth the fee(s)?

    To me it looks just like a 'collector' service - already a third party - using another third-party for fulfillment... being the top middle men / man in the chain yield them the most, because % wise it add the % off all the other that actually contribute something... Reading the post, it makes me now even 'read' that @Gordon is charging me... that's probably the most nice twist in the story...

    Thinking about the creation pattern @Gordon adheres to and the creation pattern Patreon business is after, I'm not sure if it is a fit... @Gordon is not a song/performance/movie/social media creator (no insult here and I may be totally wrong...)

    I see the motivation of the business be read more the way of

    how much money can we get out of the fans of @Gordon

    rather than

    how can we help to get @Gordon more fans

    I'm an naive optimist to the point of a fatalist... (not) sorry, it's just me.

    Moving the forum on a more prominent platform - any git ? - may be worth a thought... to consolidate the various directions reaching prospects is going.

    The Patreon time bomb is ticking... and in the end I'd rather let PayPal just cash my money... at least they are a more transparent org...

  • short version:
    With the new systems the processing fee is just more visible and hence might stop people from pledging - especially in the 1$ - 2$ range. However the service costs remain almost identical.

    longer version:
    I've looked ad EEVblogs eevBLAB #42 Patreon rant. He is showing his numbers at 4:45.
    https://youtu.be/LDt_WXnEnw0?t=285

    According to Dave, Patreon charged him with ~12% for the entire service.

    Looking at this raw data, I deduct Patreon's cut in % remains unchanged:

    • Patreon still deducts a %5 fee from the creator.
    • The processing fee was previously payed by the creator and is now added onto of the pledge:
      i.e. 20$ pledge + 0.35$ + 0.58$ = 20.93$ => ~5%.

    Yes, charging 0.35$ multiple times is wrong. That sed I assume this practice was previously hidden and is now obvious.

  • There's an added aspect to UK pledgers: VAT. Patreon adds VAT to every pledge, whereas PayPal direct doesn't. That's been the case since before this change though.

  • @AntiCat thanks - yes, the change itself doesn't seem particularly unfair - it's just the act of changing it in such a way that it raised everyone's payments when there really didn't seem to be anyone who wanted the change :(

    That's interesting re. VAT - and thanks for doing the recurring PayPal payment @tom.gidden!

    Frustratingly VAT does still has to be paid even on donations (yay UK!) - so it has to be deducted on my side. While it's annoying that Patreon add it to UK pledges, in that particular case it does make the creator's life a lot easier (unless of course you're a creator that's not VAT registered - which could actually be quite a lot of people).

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Patreon can go F....ar away.

Posted by Avatar for tom.gidden @tom.gidden

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