-
Good point! While I don't report or keep any stats like that, I do have the webserver's access log.
Here's the download count for 2021:
1 ncstart 2 flagrse 2 widnceu 2 widncr 3 helloworld 3 ncfrun 3 smartibot 5 mywelcome 5 openseizure 6 clickms 7 doztime 7 miplant 7 tilthydro 8 widid 9 hamloc 10 dsdrelay 12 nato 12 qmsched 13 color_catalog 13 horsey 15 espruinoctrl 15 kitchen 16 tabata 18 battleship 18 osgridref 19 scolor 19 viewstl 20 widchime 21 UI4swatch 22 gpstimeserver 22 simplest 22 widhwt 23 bluetoothdock 23 openloc 24 hrrawexp 25 jbells 25 osmpoi 26 mmonday 26 omnitrix 26 route 26 smtswch 26 whereworld 27 batclock 27 hrings 28 sweepclock 29 BLEcontroller 29 testuserinput 29 vibrclock 31 edisonsball 32 accelrec 33 berlinc 33 sclock 33 wohrm 34 hidjoystick 34 widcom 35 miclock 36 bclock 37 1button 37 hourstrike 37 intervals 37 pizzatimer 37 rndmclk 37 wclock 38 cprassist 38 pparrot 38 swlclk 39 morse 40 hidbkbd 41 beer 42 daysl 42 moonphase 43 cscsensor 43 qrcode 44 petrock 44 waypointer 45 buffgym 45 dotclock 45 getup 46 animals 46 ncrclk 47 jbm8b 48 binclock 49 balltastic 49 gmeter 49 widver 51 hardalarm 51 hidkbd 51 life 52 gpspoilog 53 blackjack 53 worldclock 54 minionclk 56 widclk 57 ctrclk 57 isoclock 57 mandel 57 stetho 57 widmp 59 oblique 60 countdowntimer 61 devstopwatch 62 chrono 63 supmariodark 63 widbatwarn 65 breath 65 chargeanim 65 pomodo 68 accellog 68 pong 69 snake 71 gesture 73 de-stress 73 metronome 75 lifeclk 75 swatch 76 widhrt 76 widviz 77 slevel 80 chronowid 81 blescan 81 widgps 83 fclock 86 bootgattbat 86 stepo 87 widtbat 91 batchart 92 widancs 97 tapelauncher 101 impwclock 101 svclock 102 dclock 102 pipboy 103 ballmaze 103 geissclk 104 sleepphasealarm 107 digiclock 109 astroid 109 barclock 111 alpinenav 112 lazyclock 112 planetarium 114 marioclock 114 walkersclock 115 rpgdice 116 astral 116 mclockplus 116 numerals 117 gallifr 118 clotris 119 counter 119 findphone 119 speedo 121 miclock2 124 analogimgclk 124 calendar 126 gbmusic 126 largeclock 127 torch 131 animclk 132 simpletimer 132 trex 134 blobclk 134 widram 135 dane 140 demoapp 140 HRV 147 calculator 148 imgclock 149 dotmatrixclock 150 gpsautotime 156 boldclk 158 speedalt 158 widpedom 163 astrocalc 165 hidcam 166 gpsservice 166 slidingtext 169 bledetect 173 rclock 175 hidmsic 177 flappy 189 dane_tcr 192 widhrm 197 cliock 198 gpssetup 198 magnav 203 fileman 207 multiclock 207 verticalface 218 arrow 224 weather 227 aclock 235 toucher 236 openstmap 245 widbatpc 258 clock2x3 263 compass 277 gpsnav 277 gpstime 285 dtlaunch 289 gpsinfo 309 banglerun 315 notifyfs 318 beebclock 319 heart 324 welcome 352 files 370 widbat 403 gpsrec 411 widbt 425 mclock 439 locale 549 hrm 553 activepedom 600 alarm 644 launch 751 gbridge 796 notify 832 boot 857 about 1263 settingGoing forward keeping track of this info would be pretty handy though (alongside user ratings)
-
Nice topic!
I also thought that it would be great to see statistics on app downloads or something.But stars app ratings are most likely not needed, as it would seem rude to developers who are enthusiasts and work for free. Instead, I would like to have comments for each application or a link to the author's repository to provide feedback, report bugs and suggest development ideas.
Moreover, I would transfer money to some authors for coffee, since they turned out very good apps! On GitHub, it seems that it is possible to attach donations to the repository. In general, financial gratitude is like giving 5 stars.
-
I think how long an App has been around has some bearing on it
Yes, absolutely - the pre-installed apps will obviously have a big boost too.
Ratings are definitely on my list of things to do, it just means moving away from a totally static site (perhaps just adding an API via espruino.com).
I totally get the reasoning for not having ratings on something that is provided for free, but also I think there's a pretty big benefit to users in having them. Comments would be valuable, but without a rating it's hard to users to easily find the best apps.
I've had a reasonable amount of Bangle.js returns (which ends up being expensive for me) because of the quality of the software, and while obviously the firmware itself isn't totally polished, I think if there were a clear path for people to find the best apps then perhaps a few of those returns would have been avoided and more people would be happy.
I feel like actually any feedback is good. I think a lot of users do avoid posting GitHub issues for feedback, so if there were a way to post comments it might help - not just for criticism, but for advice/tips/suggestions too.
One thing that might help is to keep track of how many apps are installed on Bangles at this moment (rather than downloads), but honestly I think there may be privacy concerns there.
-
If the quality of the apps affects watch returns, then that's another matter entirely. In this case, you can think about ratings (for example, the ability to point only thumbs up, no negative ratings), with all due respect to the developers :)
Or it would be nice to make sure that the rating cannot be given without comment. If you don't like the app then write why do you give a low rating? Perhaps this will motivate the developer to improve the application.
And one more thing: what if in the future there will be several times more apps? For such a case, you will definitely need sorting by rating or other convenient quality criteria.
Alternatively, you can add the "Recommended" or "Best of" Tab right now and specify the best apps there. What are the quality criteria? This is a separate question :)
-
what if in the future there will be several times more apps? For such a case, you will definitely need sorting by rating or other convenient quality criteria.
Yes, absolutely. I think this is the real issue - initially there were only a few apps but even now it's probably too many to just scroll through. Not having the ability to screenshot on the Bangle feels like a big issue to me as well - for clocks especially a screenshot feels very important, and while some folks have gone to the effort of making them with a camera, many (including me!) haven't.
"Recommended" or "Best of" Tab
I had wondered about this - That's the easiest option for sure - but this feels to me significantly less fair than a ratings system.
a rating cannot be given without comment
That sounds like a good idea. It'd need some thought but I feel like the ability to flag a comment/rating as no longer accurate would be needed.
So for instance if someone rates something 1 star saying it crashes and then someone else fixes that crash, we'd want to delete that comment.
From my point of view, if I could have a script that ran through GitHub issues and generated a rating then that'd save a whole bunch of time and admin - but again it's not actually very easy for non-developer users to contribute to (unless we could somehow use the GitHub APIs to make a comment actually post into a GitHub issue?).
I mean is it possible to make a hard fault by just uploading javascript app?
It shouldn't be possible to 'brick' the Bangle by uploading an app, but you could make it reboot the watch or something like that I guess, and apps that take a long time to render could make uploads/etc unreliable (however I have tried to work around that).
However if you compare Bangle.js with other watches like Amazfit then I guess it's missing some things 'out of the box' - specifically fitness functionality and tracking - and that's probably something I should look into more. While there are apps like BangleRun and the pedometer they don't really make a coherent offering and I imagine they're pretty hard to find for new users.
Honestly it's a bit frustrating because I never really get a clear answers for why the users want a return. It's more just general unhappiness with the whole thing - I think it's often kicked off by buyers in Europe getting stung with import VAT and a delay in shipping, and I'm sure lockdown doesn't help.
I think if you're in the right frame of mind then it's fine, but if you're actually trying to pick holes in Bangle.js it's pretty easy to find ways it doesn't live up to an Apple Watch.
-
I understand how you feel @Gordon, people should understand that there are not buying an Apple Watch or AmazeFit.
This is an OpenSource hackable watch with is not a fitness tracker at all. I backed this project because I want something that I can wear and runs on Espruino. I have several other watches like Fossils and other cheap fitness tracker for this purpose.
So thinking of making fitness app should not be the goal I guess, and it should be up to Espruino community.
I planned to make even an Android app for Bangle Js but have no time.
Honestly I really appreciate your effort by making wonderful Espruino. Thanks a lot.
-
@Gordon Movement in the right direction! As I see there are a lot of ideas.
About screenshots on the watch itself - everything is also true, people in the future need some kind of convenient mechanism for that.@Abhigkar That's right, but let's think wider. Bangle.js can already be used as a fitness tracker.
For example, I constantly record bike rides and steps with GPS, then transfer the data to Strava. I have a cheap fitness tracker, but now I don't need it.
If there are standard, reliable fitness apps, then this will have a positive effect on the sales Bangle.js, because it will be at min a cute, durable, moisture-resistant fitness tracker that does not collect unnecessary data about the user. Yes, it might expand the number of non-tech users, but that's great!
On the other hand, for non-technical users, UX (user experience) should be very good: out of the box, basic functions should work stably. -
@serj, yes you are correct that BangleJs can be used as a fitness tracker and from hardware perspective it is a fitness tracker indeed. But what I wanted to say that since it is an open source watch so one can have its own use case that make this thing customizable. Like you used this to record the bike ride and GPS. Other person may have a different use case.
Bangle.JS is precise in providing the communication to its peripherals line one can get accelerometer, magnetometer or even heart monitor sensor raw data. and it's an app that use this raw data and process it for different purpose. Like accelerometer data can used to predict "Step Count", I would see this is an app that is converting the raw X,Y,Z data to step count using some algorithm which should be the part of the App not the firmware.
I may sound completely wrong here, this is my thought. I consider Espruino is acting like HAL + SDK for BangleJs and one can make their own app on JavaScript that can be run on Bangje.Js.
If there are standard, reliable fitness apps, then this will have a positive effect on the sales Bangle.js,
Agree, and community should come forward and make stable fitness apps. I am sure @Gordon will help if there is a need of change/improvement/fix in Espruino.
Yes, it might expand the number of non-tech users, but that's great!
On the other hand, for non-technical users, UX (user experience) should be very good:I think it will take some time. Even Microsoft is still improving :)
out of the box, basic functions should work stably.
AFAIK It is already working.
-
I agree with a lot.
Of course it is necessary to keep the main firmware and applications separate. And of course the community plays a very important role. By the way, there is a wonderful community around Espruino :) I hope it will grow.
By basic functions, I mean fitness features when comparing Bangle.js to serial fitness trackers.
Perhaps, a set of the best fitness applications should be initially installed, which will out of box and can then be safely removed or replaced. But these are just thoughts, ideas. -
Perhaps, a set of the best fitness applications should be initially installed
Yes, on the fitness tracking side of things it'd be nice to have something out of the box that 'just works' and is easily extensible. I just posted a forum post on this at http://forum.espruino.com/conversations/364674/ and I wonder if you've got any thoughts on it?
I feel like it shouldn't be too painful to do.
UX (user experience) should be very good: out of the box
Yeah, I think actually the most sensible option for now is actually going to be to expand the 'default' apps to include fitness, notifications and probably a nicer clock, and then even though I said I'm not that sure about it, I think a 'suggested' apps tag does make sense.
I'd be interested in thoughts for wording though. 'suggested' doesn't seem fair to non-suggested apps, nor does 'verified'. Maybe 'popular'? There must be a good way to describe apps where we say "we've put a bunch of work in to these and we think they're a good idea"
-
then even though I said I'm not that sure about it, I think a 'suggested' apps tag does make sense
Well, it can be temporarily. Such a tag is now the fastest way to improve. And after the ratings and comments are added - the "Suggested" tag can be removed.
Regarding how this tag should be called:
For example, what about this: "Recommended by community"? Or "Suggested by community." Or "Approved by community." And here on the forum, open the topic and discuss which applications should be by such a tag. On the other hand, the discussion will require a time that can be spent on adding ratings and comments :)
"Popular" - not bad. Pretty good option, by the way.
Another ideas for the tag: "in trends".I would like to hear the opinions and ideas of other people.
-
What about if the apps can be grouped for a defined watch mode.
For example-
Fitness/Sports tracker mode will have all health related apps.
Gaming Mode will be loaded with loads of games
Geek mode will have tech apps
Custom mode: default apps(bootloader,welcome,a clockface...) + user can define their own set of apps -
Not having the ability to screenshot on the Bangle feels like a big issue
For most apps like clocks using the emulator would probably work, but maybe "adding screenshots is a good idea" should be documented a bit more? It's easy to overlook for people who just spent a lot of time staring at the app while developing it.
(Somewhat off-topic: a nice addition might be some way to specify a single screenshot per app which is displayed right away in the list of apps.)Download stats would definitely be nice to see, but you run the risk of a feedback loop where people keep downloading the most downloaded apps.
Maybe the About page could get a button to "Participate in survey", to submit currently installed apps? That way it's opt-in, and the idea is that people submit their setup once they are happy with it, so you won't count e.g. five HRMs per user while they try them all out.
(And because they are submitted as set, you could even suggest apps "often used together") -
Great discussion. Another option might be a thumbs up and a thumbs down. As an App developer I'd want to see at least a 1 line comment as to the reason for the thumbs up / down though. Eg - dont dis my app if you dont tell me why and please give me some credit / thanks if you like the App. Download stats probably is misleading. I've tried most of the Apps - often as there was no README or screenshots and it was the only way to make an assessment of the App. Taking photos of the Apps with your phone is quite time consuming. I often have to take 5 ot 6 shots before I get a decent one and before the LCD times out etc. Then I have to crop them and resize etc. Some ability to grab a standard 240x240 pixel png screenshot through IDE would be useful.
As for those sending the watch back as they dont like the Apps - then why not get learning javascript and start writing better apps. The whole point of an open source smartwatch is that its for tweaking and configuring. The bangle is not the prettiest of watches but it is the only one I know of where you can truly get control of the GPS chip. The Amafit Bip has reasonably good GPS but all you can get out of it is a lat and lon - such a waste of the hardware, and 6 out of 10 to Amizfit for not going the extra mile and writing the software to make a useful wrist based GPS app. Likewise when I use a FitBit Charge HR - I was always wondering why they never had a built in sedentary timer in them as it would have been an easy feature to provide. Its something I could code one day on the Bangle.
-
Recommended is good. Popular is what it says on the tin - easy to understand. IE most people liked it and would recommend it. If we want to get complicated then you could use the Net Promoter Score system (NPS). You ask people 'how likely are you to recommend this app to others'. 7 is discounted as sitting on the fence. 1-6 are detractors and 8,9,10 are promoters. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_Promoter. But I think keep it simple (#thumbs up - #thumbs down).
-
(c) wiki: As of 2020, versions of the NPS are now used by two-thirds of Fortune 1000 companies.
So that's what it's called! Interesting, thanks for the link @HughB
Net Promoter Score (NPS) - fits very well. In fact, on the one hand, this is an assessment for the apps on a wider scale (10 versus 5 stars), on the other hand, it is a recommendation. And here it is logical that the most recommended apps will be tagged "Recommended". Next, the top rate apps will be automatically collected in a separate tab-tag. In addition to such a recommendation, a small comment with an explanation should be written; without a comment, the rating cannot be increased or decreased. And such comments can be marked as #thumbs up - #thumbs down. Because comments can be out of date or false. @Gordon wrote about something similar above.
And it may be psychologically more comfortable to rate NPS than classic rating stars. "A bad rating" and "a lack of recommendation" sounds different.
If #thumbs up - #thumbs down is set as a rating for apps, then now I see problems with this. For example, we have 10 stopwatches apps and I like them all in their own way, I put everyone #thumbs up + comment. But most likely other users will want to see a more flexible rating system. It will also be a plus for the developer - it is clear that the app is just good/neutral, but not great.
Download statistics are really not a very reliable metric. But I would still like to have such statistics at hand in the App Loader. It's interesting at least.
-
Thanks! That's really interesting! I think in the absence of ratings, thumbsup/down could be good.
Screenshots... It's easy to overlook for people who just spent a lot of time staring at the app while developing it.
Well, it's mainly because I don't want to ask people to take a photo of their watch - it feels like it won't give a good screenshot unless you're really careful and is a lot of effort. I wanted to get a decent way to do screenshots - but once that is done I think having a JSON field for the screenshot would be great.
Talking of which.... I'd been meaning to allow the emulator to run apps containing multiple files, which would at least open the door to screenshots for a lot more apps.
I have just come up with a quick hack (which I'd been meaning to do for ages) which allows you to render a screenshot direct from the watch. It's really slow though: http://forum.espruino.com/conversations/364715
Still, if this works reliably on most apps I could build it into Bangle.js which should at least make it a little faster.
Gordon
Serj
Abhigkar
rigrig-
Post a reply
About
App install stats ?
Posted by
@HughB
Is it possible to get stats on how many times an App has been installed from the main App Loader site. This would be really useful to see. It would give a very good indication of which Apps were really popular and needed to get ported to any new Espruino supported watch.