Improve recorder app for runners

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  • Following the excellent run app, a small discussion on which data are to be displayed after the run/ride has to be opened.
    The actual recorder app, when asked to display a track shows:

    • the date and time (very useful)
    • the duration (obvious)
    • records (is the number of recorded gps fixes ? I don't see the point).
    • plot map (why not)
    • plot openstreetmap (good I think)
    • plot altitude (Maybe add positive and negative meters in the bottom ? For cyclists and mountain runners ?)
    • plot speed (expressed in meters per second, which is different from all previously used metrics)
      If I understood correctly @Gordon may add a text file with all these data visible in one place.
      Are there more items you all would like to see here ? Personnally:
    • Average and max HR
    • average and max speed/pace (depending on locale).
  • records just gives you an idea of the size of the file (I guess we could just give a size in bytes?). A 10 minute file with 1/sec recording will be bigger than a 1 hour file with 1/10 sec recording so it feels important.

    Adjusting the speed value to a better metric should be pretty easy...

    • Actual distance travelled?
    • Heart rate zones (graph showing how long HR was in each of 3 zones)

    The data is calculated from the recorded file when you view it in the app, so in a way there's little point storing it (apart from to save a few seconds calculating).

    In the other thread I was talking about saving the stats that are displayed in the Run app. They could also just be calculated from recorded data though...

  • Actual distance travelled?

    Ah yes, of course !

    Heart rate zones (graph showing how long HR was in each of 3 zones)

    3 zones ? Not 5 ? I do agree that zone 1 is not used at all for sport. Also, I can't but some people do run in zone 2, people cycling may also use this zone (?). Globally I think these 2 first zones will be empty for most of he users, but if the first zone displayed is the zone 3, it might be confusing.

    saving the stats that are displayed in the Run app. They could also just be calculated from recorded data though...

    The more precise the better I suppose. I'm ready to wait 15 seconds (for the calculations and processing) at the end of my run to get more precise informations displayed and saved. But if you need to call data from another app inside "run app" it may defeat the simple design approach ?

  • The UI approach I see in most sports watches is
    an App the lets you start / stop your activity and displays various measures as you go, eg pace, elapsed time, current heart rate. When you end it then switches to some form of Actvity data reader and views the information in the log. Its there that you would see how much time you have spent in different heart zones etc.

    At the moment the time to read / analyse the log file can be quite long. Not sure if this will improve when the GIT js compiler comes along. Maybe at somepoint there is an argument for a binary recorder record format with fixed sized records that could be accessed on a random access basis.
    But until we have a HRM that works really well when moving it is probably not worth doing.

    At the moment I think simple heart rate upper / lower warning levels would be a simple way to do this on the fly at the moment. Plus the range would then be set by the user and that would avoid debates over zones that in the end are different for everyone, depending on age, fitness. For example according to the traditional max heart rate formula (220-age) my max heart rate should be 161. However I hit 174bpm on Saturday when testing the recorder against my Amizfit Bip.

    I don't think we are that far off from saying we want to freeze the feature set of RUN fairly soone to keep it simple.

  • @HughB I do like to have my actual heart zones while I run. I can have it on the Garmin and that's nice. It's the third of the 3 things I miss on the bangle.js (the 2 others being reading at the end of the run my average HR and average speed, but I have good hope for these 2 to be integrated in not too long).
    It's difficult to know one's max HR, and yes, the usual formula is imprecise, to say the least. Zones are calculated depending on max HR, and come with different ways to be calculated bringing even more variations in the results. I do agree HughB, they're actually badly subjective. Still, beginners, top elite runners and trainers worlwide use this reference. "Run zones" in youtube shows the widespread of its use.
    I think it could be estimated from max HR or another calculation method and then leave the possibility for users to tweak it. I will do a bit of research on different calculations techniques and give feedbacks later, if deemed useful.
    If we use a different exhaustion metrics for runners, like Lactate Threshold or threshold training, we'll need to integrate some machine learning into it, which seems way more complicated.

    At the moment I think simple heart rate upper / lower warning levels would be a simple way to do this on the fly at the moment.

    Actually yes. But last time I tried it, the app didn't give me any vibrating feedback during the run and I just gave up using it. I'll try it again.

  • Ah, I confirm the HRM WORKOUT app that does the buzzing when upper or lower hr limit is reached doesn't work in the background.

  • This one should work in the background: https://banglejs.com/apps/#hralarm

  • Thanks for the hint. It looks like this app can do the trick.

  • the app didn't give me any vibrating >feedback

    Apart from buzzing on first GPS fix, there is currently no alerting on exceeding a heart rate threshold. With the current HRM accuracy problem (heart rate reported goes lower the more you move) it would be pointless to add an alert at the current time, it just wouldn't work. And we can't report zones either until we can trust the heart rate reading. I know others are looking at how to fix the heartrate reporting, but it sounds a difficult problem to solve.

  • average speed

    A PACE is calculated throughout the run and shown in minutes per the distance you select in the settings. So So I want minutes per mile but you can do minutes per 1000m, half marathon, marathon. It probably needs 5k, 10k, 10 miles as well.

    At the end of the run you press Stop and can read it off.

    The current speed is shown in mph by calculating from distance between two latest fixes over time between two fixes, it's a bit wobbly but it works. I tend to use A PACE though.

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Improve recorder app for runners

Posted by Avatar for Fteacher @Fteacher

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